nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Thank you for evading important doctrinal points and centering on my grammar and occasional mistake ( which I correct as soon as spotted). Having been a writer for thirty years, I note that you have an unusual slant on the English language. And as for my intelligence, I have challenged you, but you sidestep by changing the subject.
I take it you can not defend your statement about 1000s dying from the BT rules. Let's leave it at that. Wayne
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Careful, Wayne. I never used the term "liars." In fact you introduced the term by saying "Then tell me whether the Witnesses or MacGregor are liars!" That may be your kind of language, but it isn't mine. Either you are lying or you are telling the truth about your being a JW. I say you are lying. If you are not a baptized JW, you are a JW one hundred percent at heart. There is no difference. You defend them and their errors as if your life depended upon it. I think it's hypocritical to pretend that you are merely a detached spectator when in fact you are an ardent JW apologist.
Frank - Are you stark raving mad. You just called me a liar twice in this post and once in a previous. "Either you are lying" and "I say you are lying" sound awfully like you are saying I'm a liar. What planet are you from?
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
The above is what I referred to from memory, not realizing it was from you. The inferrence (from those works cited on page 1564) would be that Jesus and disciples read the Tet. in temple writings which existed in their day, apart from the Sept. | ||
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Frank - Even though you are the kind of person who resorts to calling others liars, I will respond because I have a compelling reason to.
About my insistence on saying that the Tetragrammaton (not Jehovah as you mistakenly infered from my previous) was known in Jesus' day and read by all, I can do no better at this time than to refer you to the brown NWT page 1564. Ignore for the moment that it's their work and read the reference works of others quoted. There is evidence that the Tet. extended into the 2nd/3rd century and was removed after that. This would counter the statement as to why Jesus did not rebuke. Because the divine name WAS used. This is only conjecture for now, but is as possible as the other poster's suggestion.
There are also non-Witness writers who claim that at least Matthew used the Tet. in a Hebrew version and possibly all the others did in their Greek. This tends to knock down your exaggerated statement that there is not any proof in the entire world. If it were not 95 degrees in my apartment I would dig out other proofs that I know I have. I will post back with those in time. It is not my policy to use Witness literature as proof, but I must at this time. I truly believe that their quotes in this case are accurate because I've seen them elsewhere.
In your one post, you said 1000s died from a silly requirement in Africa, 1000s died from their stand on BTs, 100s died from heartbreak.
All I got back as proof was a link to one Japanese woman and your reference to Awake May 22/94, which said "many" (not "few", as I previously said. Sorry). But anyways, how many is "many"? Did this issue give a figure? Was it the 1000s you mentioned? If not, you're a little shy on proof. Wayne
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Frank - I posted my other comments before reading your latest, so it is out of order. This letter addresses your latest. In a previous post you mentioned 1000s and 100s. Now it's a few. Where is your proof of 1000s of deaths fron lack of transfusions. I've read all about the few. I didn't read about your 1000s. Prove this and don't use the net. I want proof! Anything can be posted on the net, such as this site! And where is the proof of your other claims, besides the net. New York Times, Encyclopedia. That's proof.
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Glenster and others - Since there is only one of me and a whole bunch of you, excuse me if I miss someone's comment or Q.
Glenster - After looking at your site (page 4, picked at random), I see the level of expertise I'm dealing with on this site. You must know, as any 1st year Witness most likely knows, that the divine name does not appear in the NT because of an unscripural and superstitious removal by the !st century copyists. This superstition persists to this day.
It was not omitted by the NT writers because Jehovah/Yahweh all of a sudden inspired them to substitute his name for Lord and God. Would he inspire it to be in the OT 7000 times and not once in the NT? Would that make any sense? (This also proves the "book of Mormon" to be a fraud - the absence of the Divine name, Joseph Smith only having the KJ to plagiarize!)
All 237 occurrences, but one, in the NWT New Test. are in quotes from the OT. What possible licence would the NT writers have for substituting or implying Jesus in any of these places? The confusion arising from the generic God/Lord in the NT can be blamed entirely on the the superstitious, ungodly first/second century Jews. This atrocity led to to the easy acceptance of the Trinity doctrine concocted by the unscrupulous CC, around the same time they infested the world with Christmas and Easter! Don't blame JWs for trying to right this wrong.
Again, Glenster, thanks for your link to Fats Waller's "Feets To Big" By coincidence, I borrowed a 4 CD Waller set from my library only weeks ago. A bit too much Waller in one sitting, I must say.But I wonder how someone with musical taste much like my own can be so wrong about religion. Have you ever actually studied it? Wayne
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
A person has to be pretty naive to ignore the bad and to speak only of the "good" that JWs do. You seem totally unfamiliar with their record in Africa where thousands of them died due to a silly requirement of the Watchtower Society concerning political party cards. Ditto with the record of thousands dying due to their stand on blood transfusions. Surely hundreds have died from heartbreak due to their cruel disfellowshiping policy that doesn't allow grandparents to visit or even to see their grandchildren. Consider also their record of unlawful shelter of pedophiles and wife beaters. Due to being persuaded by the Watchtower Society to reject college and to put all their financial resources into the Society's activities, possibly millions of JWs have spent their old age in poverty or near-poverty conditionF
Frank, Can you give major proof of any of this?
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
After posting my previous, I did a Google of MacGregor. I was writing from memory and wanted to make sure I was correct. Type "MacGregor Ministries" and the first entry should be the one you want. Post back and tell everyone whether they are for you or against you. Then tell me whether the Witnesses or MacGregor are liars!
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Just a short post for now. The verse "1 Cor 8:7 must be one that JWs also use against the rest of the world.
Also, unless everyone on this site agrees with everyone else on this site, and all of you have the "true faith" that pleases God, at least some of you must also be included in that verse.
We have a varied group here, including at least one athiest and many who not only disagree with the Witnesses, but don't agree with other posters.
Isn't it logical to assume that if JWs are on the wrong path, then many on this site are also on the wrong path?
The same thing applies to people who have been conned by MacGregor Ministries. While smugly sending away for their anti- Witness literature, they have no idea that they are most-likely also on the MacGregor hit list. Does anyone have any idea who else is on this list. If you care, do the research.
I have done so. Hint - Moslems and Catholics. That's 2 billion to start with. Then Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Charismatic groups, and Christadelphians ( who have literature on this site for sale)! But of course it's easy to pick on the Witnesses.
nwt scriptures: john 20:28-29 .
28 in answer thomas said to him: my lord and my god!
29 jesus said to him: because you have seen me have you believed?
Keyser, Barry, quietlyleaving - Thanks for your input. I'm at a disadvatage not being able to copy and paste.
We have one for, one against Chrismas. Romans 14:5 can't mean anything but a choice between innocent festivals of the day. It certainly would not forsee a Holiday concocted 3 centuries in the future derived from a drunken orgy and given the same date - Dec. 25. The next verse mentions it should honor the Lord. Would you honor the Lord by celebrating Christmas?
As to people in 200 AD possessing a religious book. they would probably have their hand chopped of or be put to death. The Dark Ages were on the horizon. The first Bibles (about 1500) were one-offs and chained. Even when the printing press arrived, very few ever saw a Bible for many years to come. This was the tail end of the dark ages and people were still being put to death for their beliefs.
1500 - 1600 was not a time conducive to honest Bible translating, if you valued your life.
About the mistaken predictions, and alledged misconduct of JW leadership throughout their history. That's a lifetime study in itself. I prefer to concentrate on the "meat and potatoes". The Trinity, Hell, Heaven, the immortal soul, babtism. And how the individual members conduct themselves. If they were lied to or misled about these major doctrines, I want to know.
As Michael Jackson would say," one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl!". And about predicting, JWs did make a sort of apology a few years ago and said they won't do it again.
I have always disagreed with them on this, or anyone else who claims to have deciphered Revelations. Doesn't the book itself say it can't be done? I don't believe everything they say and have heard all the stories.
But I believe their main doctrines hold up to scrutiny, and the members cannot be blamed for what some of the leaders do. What group do you know of that teaches true doctrines and has an unblemished past? Name one. Thanks, Wayne
